Jul 26, 2011; Dallas, TX, USA; Big 12 conference sign welcomes all attendees to the Big 12 media day press conference at the Westin Galleria Hotel. Mandatory Credit: Kevin Jairaj-US PRESSWIRE

Clemson, Florida State Big 12 Rumor Should Put Other Conferences On-Guard


Speculation is enough to force action, even hysteria. Oil prices and the stock markets fluctuate on pure speculation. Likewise, speculation fuels activity on the conference realignment front. League commissioners should not act brashly amid rumors Florida State and Clemson were close to a move to the Big 12 Conference.

Yesterday discussing said rumors, I touched on this subject via the myriad leaks that emanated about Texas two years ago. Rumors have a way of mutating and becoming something much bigger when past through multiple channels. The Big 12 seeks expansion and Florida State and Clemson are possibilities, purple monkey dishwasher.

Rumor was enough to force action on the Big 12′s part. Conferences that acted overly cautious then are playing catch-up now like the Big East, or on death’s door, like the WAC.

Thus far, there is nothing beyond the unnamed sources Cemetery Hill and Eer Insider reference in their respective columns suggesting this move happens. But even if CU and FSU stand pat in the ACC, rest assured aftershocks are still ahead.

The Big 12 introduced a new commissioner on Friday, Bob Bowlsby. Previous chatter from the conference was it would remain at 10, but assumption was that chatter was idle. Adding TCU and West Virginia ensured the conference’s survival after losing four members, but simple survival is not enough in the new landscape. The Big 12 has big money potential, but a minimum of 12 members has proven to be the most lucrative model.

More members equates to more television influence and thus a bigger contract. A conference championship game is a centerpiece and revenue generator. Eleven and twelve may not be FSU and CU, but it has to be someone. And that means another conference must lose out, barring an independent’s movement.


One such independent is Notre Dame, arguably the most recognizable brand in college football. The Chicago Tribune mentioned UND as a high priority on the conference’s wish list. Then again, Kate Upton is on most guy’s dating wish list.

The Irish have balked at football membership routinely in the past. The program is not what it once was, but remains a highly valuable commodity. The NBC deal remains a huge asset any conference would struggle to match. Further, a conference like the Big Ten can fail to woo UND with a tangible contract. Until Bowlsby brokers a contract with the networks, the Big 12 can only sell a concept. That works more for other programs going solely on concept in their current situations.

Fellow independent BYU has had talks with Big 12, but nothing more. Its denial of the Big East during its Western expansion suggests the Cougars will only move under ideal circumstances, which the Big 12 would offer. Membership alongside Oklahoma, Texas and the like gives BYU the credibility it seeks.

BYU would bring quality football, and a passionate fan base that travels well and always fills it stadium. However, the Cougars are in a small television market. BYU must sell its global appeal via LDS membership to compensate. Further, selling the Big 12 on moving west is a challenge. Every other rumored target is in the east.

At least one program to the east would be ideal for West Virginia, particularly in sports beside football. FSU and CU suit this, but former Mountaineer Big East partners Cincinnati and Louisville do even more. UL has had particular buzz on the Big 12 front. Numerous programs under the university’s umbrella excel, including men’s basketball, and Charlie Strong has football moving in a positive direction.

Membership in a more football inclined conference like the Big 12, with the hypothetically lofty television contract it seeks en tow, UL brass could offer more to keep Strong. Revolving doors have been a problem with Big East coaches. Last season, Greg Schiano had more tenure at the same location than the rest of his peers combined. And Schiano’s now gone.

There’s no coincidence the Big East has struggled to retain members, given the speed with which coaches leave. Until the Big East establishes itself as more of a power, the cycle will perpetuate.

As for Big East commissioner John Marinatto, an aggressive approach is vital. Expanded as it did over the winter was crucial, but maintaining its new members is equally so. Remember, the Big East had TCU signed but lost it amid instability last year. The buyout clause worked into new signees’ contracts are the first key.

The conference’s movement west was minimal. Boise State and San Diego State are on their own islands, with BYU and Air Force both balking. Travel will pose challenges in football, and men’s basketball both downgraded in their affiliations. The Mountain West is picking up steam with its national TV coverage — if Craig Thompson and Co. can lock down regional coverage deals without the albatross of The Mtn., remaining in the MWC becomes more appealing than it was when BSU and SDSU signed with the Big East.

And don’t be surprised if ACC commissioner John Swofford takes an aggressive approach. Any validity to two programs as key to the ACC as Clemson and Florida State seeking membership elsewhere means offering them something to stay happy. Certainly Pitt and Syracuse’s additions were big, but reaching 16 means more influence in TV negotiations. Aforementioned Louisville and Cincinnati have much to offer as discussed.

Oh, and there’s the SEC. The most successful football conference sits at 14, with eastern spots sitting conspicuously empty. UL, anyone?

Dick's Sporting Goods presents "Hell Week":

Tags: Bob Bowlsby Boise State Broncos BYU Cougars Charlie Strong Cincinnati Bearcats Clemson Tigers Conference Realignment Florida State Seminoles Greg Schiano John Marinatto Louisville Pitt Rutgers Scarlet Knights San Diego State Aztecs Syracuse

  • KushPhog

    BYU wont get in the Big12. They had a shot last year but there were issues with the TV deal they have and admittance to the conference. Once the BYU TV issue could not be resolved, the Big12 went to West Virginia. West Virginia is now in BYUs spot and BYU has zerp ability to be considered for another.
     
    Also. Once Florida St jumps to the Big12, Clemson will follow. From this point the Big12 will not add any new members unless Miami and or Georgia Tech decide to come. The Big12 would prefer both do, but in 2-3 years. Once these teams have joined the push to bring Notre Dame and Pitt in will begin. 
    Theres a plan to build a major conference in motion and by the 2016 season the teams listed in this post will be playing in the Big12.

  • kensing45

    Thanks for stopping by, KushPhog. I agree that BYU wants the Big 12 more than the Big 12 wants BYU. It would seem the Big 12 has a lot to offer for a mega-TV deal as a pretty clear No. 2 in football quality (if not No. 1; some years, the case could be made). All the nuts-and-bolts of splitting the pot getting sorted out is one issue I’m interested to see. Seemed like in 2010, there was a lot of hard feelings over Texas’s slice. 

  • PaulPoyfair

    BYU brings alot to the party… Large fan base, top grade facilities, and competitive programs… When BYU was first approached the Big 12 environment did not look very stable and so for good reason the Cougars were cautious (particularly after setting the table for becoming an Indy with ESPN)…
     
    Things have changed over the past two years… The Big 12 environment looks to be far more stable while BYU has become much more hungry for quality competition in their November Schedules and for having a shot at at the BCS Bowls and national title… BYU still has excellent credentials and would be a value add to any of the big conferences that took them from a both a Network Revenue Generation standpoint and from a Gate Receipts standpoint… Some may not like their faith, but all Objective Criterion is covered as well or better than any other potential candidate for membership.
     
    I predict that FSU and lemson fall through and that UL and BYU get invites to begin in 2013-2014… ND may choose to move their Olympic Sports to the Big 12 which could move BYU to a Football only school for the present.

    • Sooner_Stampede

      I heard rumors that the Big 12 was in talks to take FSU, Clemson, Louisville, and BYU as a football only member with ND as a partial football member with all their other sports in the conference. While I like all of those schools and would love to have them I absolutely want no part of BYU. Putting BYU in that package deal makes it horrible. Besides, if we have learned anything from the Big East its that having partial members here and full time members there is that it creates instability, the one thing the Big 12 has finally overcome. BYU does not offer everything that BYU and its fans claim. BYU has no market value, you cannot count every mormon alive as a BYU sports fan, it would further isolate WVU and the Big 12 DOES NOT want to do that, and their programs are mediocre at best. The reason BYU wants out of their independency is because the ratings for their sports has been a lot lower than what they projected them to be and the college football landscape is changing and is going to lock out BYU (the playoffs). While BYU fans may love the idea of playing elite football teams the Big 12 does not love the idea of having to play BYU. Nothing about BYU would make a football or Big 12 fan excited or want to play them. Even if by some miracle BYU did become a football only member I hope for the Big 12′s sake that they put a clause in the contracts that allows them to boot them from the conference once a decent program becomes available for membership. BYU does not deserve the resources or revenue that the Big 12 can provide when there are other programs out there that are far better and stronger.

      • Nagaokakyo1

         @Sooner_Stampede You’re just pathetically jealous and misinformed.  Just because BYU beat OU the last time they played (2009) is no reason to hate on BYU.  ESPN is very happy with their arrangement with BYU and it pays BYU close to what they would make as a Big 12 member.  BYU has a national following and a larger fan base than many of the current Big 12 schools.  Adding BYU to the Big 12 would be a win-win.

  • PaulPoyfair

    @Sooner_Stampede, Why is it that Redneck Okie Bigots such as yourself can never debate with anything but baseless opinions when it comes to BYU or Mormons in general? You probably wrote a 300 words essay, stated  a very definitive opinion, and backed it up with absolutely zero facts. Hell, you could be “T Boone” himself.
     
    Some of your comments would be laughable if they weren’t so pathetic.
     
    . You claim that BYU does not offer everything their fans claim… What does that mean? I have heard fans claim that they have great facilities, a solid fan base and that they travel well (meaning they get alot of fans to away games)… They do, and it’s fact… They have a stadium that seats between 60,000 and 65,000 people and they fill it virtually every game (even when they play lower quality teams from the WAC in November with snow and ice on the ground). In fact if they were a B12 member last year, they would have ranked 4th in attendance… They travel well and that is fact. PAC 12 schools show a 15% jump in ticket sales whenever BYU comes to town in Football or Basketball… ESPN loves them as witnessed by the individual contract that they signed with the school. Not only that, BYU is always one of their top draws in viewership when games are shown during the year. They currently own 5 of the top 10 games broadcast by ESPN in the history of ESPN.
     
    . You claim they have no “Market Value”… The SLC Television Market is rated as the 33rd biggest by Nielson while your Sooners play in the 45th largest market. Cincy is in the 35th and Louisville is in the 48th… And most experts would agree that BYU pulls from far more markets than SLC… Infact, perhaps more than any other school besides ND.
     
    . Then, for you to say that “BYU’s sports programs are mediocre at best” is such an absolutely ridiculous comment that it almost bears no need for a response… But I can’t help myself.
    BYU has won a National Championship, has had a Heisman Trophy winner, a couple of Hall of Fame NFL QBs and finished in the top 25 in the country 5 out of the past 6 years. Only 10 other schools have accomplished that… Oklahoma has yet to beat BYU. BYU has spanked them both times that they played over the past 10 years and was chosen over Oklahoma for the 84′ National Title. The last whopping came in 2010 when the Sooners were ranked 3rd in the country and playing in front of a friendly fan base in Cowboy Stadium in Dallas, TX… BYU has also beaten Texas 2 out of 3 and would have swept them as well had it not been for some last second fourth quarter heroics last year… This doesn’t even account for their success on the Basketball floor… 6 consecutive season of 25 wins or more, an appearance in the sweet 16 and the home of 2011′s player of the year.
     
    As far as BYU “not deserving a cut of the Revenues generated (if they were a Big 12 Member) I would simply refer you to your own conference rankings… BYU is considered a “cute kid” in B12 venacular… The term “Cute Kid” means that they are one of the very few schools out there that would guarantee the league a net gain in revenue share with their membership… That means B12 members would have a larger Revenue Distribution with them than without them… A distinction that 5 of your current schools can’t claim.
     
    No, Sooner_Stampede… your comments are dripping of “prejudice” and have no resemblance to the “Truth”… I heard a statement recently that applies to you and your post… “one is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own set of facts”. Lose the Bigotry and cheer the sport, you’ll enjoy life much more.

    • Sooner_Stampede

      Sorry to tell you this but I don’t have a problem with your cult one bit. I left religion out of it because I was referring purely to football and athletics if you took it as an insult to your beliefs then I’m sorry but I was not being prejudiced I was being a fan of college football. By saying that BYU doesn’t offer what the fans claim I was referring to the vast numbers of fans you have and how all conferences would love to have BYU if they weren’t a religious school. Market value is because Utah has a small market (population of 2.8 million), Oklahoma for example has a population of 3.8 million with both OKC 1.6 million and Tulsa 1.2 million. In a Sports Illustrated story on estimated fanbases/national followings they published months ago OU had a fanbase in the top 5/10 in the country with over 1.8 million and BYU was placed a lot lower than that. The mediocrity I was referring to is that BYU has 10 NC’s in all sports which would put them at middle of the pack in the Big 12 and like clockwork all BYU fans mention their 1 NC in football back in 84′ that they won with an amazing game against a 6-6 Michigan. That NC was highly contested by several schools and coaches across the country because they claimed BYU played a weak schedule, which is why they remained undefeated, and if the 3 teams all ahead of BYU had not lost their bowl games BYU would not have won the NC for that year. Once again as a current Big 12 member and fan I would not like to see my team play BYU because it is not exciting or fun, BYU won in 2009 because our Heisman winning QB left the game because he landed on his shoulder weird and the true freshman Landry Jones took over in his very first college game.
       
      FYI- when the Big 12 was looking for expansion candidates and they talked to BYU ESPN specifically advised not to take BYU (this was published by CBSsports and other sites back in August-October.

      • Nagaokakyo1

         @Sooner_Stampede You’re as whiny as Barry Switzer and your arguments make about as much sense and his did in ’84.  Get over it.  BYU won the NC and OU didn’t.  Your attempt to mask you sour grapes and religious bigotry by using faulty logic and spurious arguments will not work.

        • Sooner_Stampede

          Once again it is not me who uses insults and tries to belittle someone. I have no sour grapes and I AM NOT MAKING THIS SOME KIND OF AN OU BYU THING. PaulPoyfair said I made an argument without facts so I used sources for my opinions and then you come back and say it is “faulty logic and spurious arguments”. Using such things as sports magazines, online sports articles from news sources, and actual market sizes and state populations is “faulty logic”. I said Utah is a small market, PPfair said it is a very big market, and then I use actual census numbers for population to make my point but its considered faulty by you. You are a BYU fan and good for you but you can’t expect every one else in the world to love BYU as much as a BYU fan does. Here are some more facts that you will find faulty: the PAC refused to allow BYU in because of religious affiliation and the B1G didn’t want BYU because they are not AAU members. When a couple Big 12 fans say “hey we don’t think BYU is that great” you say we are bigots and idiots even though the PAC rejected you purely on religion, but I guess you don’t consider that bigotry. You think you are the greatest thing to ever play on the gridiron and if anyone disagrees you immediately insult them and tell them the only reason they would have that opinion MUST be because of bigottry. Then, when we say we need to move east to not isolate our newest member WVU we are once again idiots and biggots.

      • PaulPoyfair

         @Sooner_Stampede
         So you don’t have problems with my “cult” huh? You are truly an @$$ hole aren’t you?… I feel sad for you though… It must be a hit to your very core to believe that your faith is so inferior that you have to belittle the faith of others in order to make yourself feel good… I am sure that the Mormons would be happy to share their religion with you, all you have to do is ask… Calling a persons beliefs cultist is akin to telling a fellow female second grader that she is ugly because you actually think that she is cute. 
        Unfortunately for you, your knowledge of college football and the facts that surround it are about as astute as your knowledge of religion… not too accurate… and that is being kind. 
        As I said earlier… You are entitled to your own misguided opinions, but not your own set of facts… It’s almost like you didn’t even read the facts that I shared with you earlier… Networks (that give conferences their TV money) don’t give a rip how many folks live in a state… They care about 2 things and two things only: 1) What is the viewership of a Market?; and, 2) What is the viewership generated by a school.  
        In answer to #1, I have already told you the viewership by Markets  for comparison purposes: SLC is rated as the 33rd largest market, Ok City is ranked 45th, and Tulsa is ranked 61st… Just to help you since you are from OU, Lower is Better in this ranking… In answer to number 2,  BYU has viewership from multiple makets nationally and internationally as evidenced by their own BYU TV and the viewership they get broadcasting their own games, the BYU vs Oregon State game was the highest rated game on the Saturday they played this past season, as an example… I also refer you to an ESPN comment on BYU gamesmade this bast season “With their LDS affiliation, BYU also has a big national following, and is one of the best draws in the nation from a television rating standpoint.” 
        You claimed the ESPN advised the B12 not to admit BYU… Another Lie… The rumor was that FOX didn’t like the fact that BYU can’t play on Sunday but that was not substantiated.
        Your claim and suggested facts concerning BYU’s 84′ Championship are also wrong and full of additional lies…  Only 2 coaches in NCAA FB challenged whether or not BYU should have been crowned Champs… They were Barry Switzer and Bo Shembechler from MI… BYU whooped Bo’s team, and Washington (who was rated 3rd in the country) then whooped Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl causing the Coaches and Writers to choose between U of W aund BYU and they chose BYU… An interesting prologue to this story is that U of W played BYU the first game of the next season with pretty much the same roster for both teams… BYU won 28-0.
        You know Sooner_Stampede… I think most folks who have been whooped this badly in debate on the merrits of whether BYU should be in the B12 would probably get embarrassed and go away (kind of like how you and your football team does when it comes to BYU as a conference opponent), but you keep on going… Being thrashed and humiliated I guess doesn’t bother you so keep on bringing it. Who knows, one day you might actually make a stumble across a real fact and actually make a point… I’m pulling for you Sooner… BTW, if you want to learn more about the Mormons, let me know, I’ll contact one of my friends and I am sure that they can find someone to send over to you to teach you factually about what they believe. 
         
         

        • Sooner_Stampede

          The reason I used “cult” which was the only insult/derogatory word and statement I made against you, and it was in my third post, was because you called me a “Redneck Okie Bigot” even though I had said nothing offensive. You came right out of the gate on the defensive saying all my opinions were purely against mormons and that is the only reason I was saying these things. Look on a Big 12 message board or forum and you will see the same things I have said here. PAC forums and boards are far less polite and go much deeper and they are actually bigotted. Networks do look at a states market size and then they look at how far that market is penetrated by ratings. You think you have “whooped me” but you keep grasping at straws.  You think I am a bigot even though I had said nothing about religion and I was only referring to my opinion on BYU football. Hey, but since you already think I am a bigot here is a big FYI for you MOST OF THE COUNTRY THINKS YOUR RELIGION IS A CULT.
           
          Joseph Smith 200 years ago found golden plates in the woods, that he wouldn’t show anyone, and he was lead to them by an Indian angel. He also learned that Jesus will come back to rule in his new paradise in Missouri. Also, whenever you die you get to rule over you own personal planet with all of your loved ones there, and not to mention that God himself is a corporeal being who lives on the planet Kolob. Polygamy was also central to the mormon faith until Utah wanted to become a state and the US government would not admit them unless they outlawed polygamy, even though it was a pillar of their faith, so they did what they were told in order to become a part of the US. Talk about sticking to you faith. Keep in mind I didn’t want to bring any of this up because I wanted to talk about football but you wanted to sling insults and play the victim. Get over it and move on. The LDS church is a corrupt pyramid scheme leading along a massive cult following and when anyone questions doctrine they are excommunicated and cut off from their communities and their families. There have been many documentaries on these exact subjects and some of them are made by ex-mormons who say that LDS is in fact a cult. 

  • GoPokes

     @PaulPoyfair  Sorry I’m a “Redneck Okie Bigot” (LOL) but BYU will never get into the Big 12. We want to go east. I’m not knocking BYU’s athletic program at all (though you’re crazy if you think anyone outside Utah wouldnt turn the channel if BYU was playing) BYU does not offer the geographic footprint the Big 12 wants. We are making moves to beat the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 12. If you haven’t realized it yet, those are the only conferences that matter. Now quit stalking us and let us flirt with Clemson and FSU. Those are the programs that will allow us to compete with the SEC on a more even playing field.

    • PaulPoyfair

       @GoPokes
       
      @GoPokes, at least we have an agreement on who you are and what drives you… It has nothing to do with sports or revenue contribution… It has to do with your Evangelical prejudices… Truth is that I don’t think that BYU would want to be in a conference where they’re not wanted, but let’s be real… Your claims that BYU is not a good draw are totally and completely false… BYU is a much better draw that OSU… go check the ESPN ratings yourself…check the ticket sales for teams they play in the Big 12… They outdraw over 50% of the schools currently in the conference… OSU had a good year last year, congrats… But BYU has outperformed them on a national stage.
      As far as going East is concerned, you aren’t going to pull anyone out of the ACC… What’s the motivation? There won’t be any jump in revenue and they will lose the regional rivalry that has developed between the teams… They will flirt with y’all but they won’t leave their conference and you can take that to the bank…
      OSU kind of reminds me of the big talkers back in school. As long as they were around their big buddies (UT and U of O) they would flap their jaws… But when either one of the two aren’t on your side or standing next to you, y’all become as quiet as church mice.
      BYU will end up in a conference…. Not sure which one it will be, but when they make the move they will bring with them alot of enthusiasm, alot of fans (far more than OSU), and with it they will bring some good size network revenue to that conference. Watch and learn…
      Oh, and to say that only the folks in Utah watch the Cougars is simply validation to your ignorance of college sports.

      • Sooner_Stampede

        As an OU fan we are supposed to go against all things OSU but on this we agree. OSU went to a BCS bowl and beat a 4th ranked Stanford team helmed by the upcoming 1st pick of the 2012 NFL draft. OSU should have gone to the NC but were robbed by the pollsters.
         
        Not any motivation for an ACC team to join the Big 12? Now who is ignoran o college sports? The ACC makes currently 13 million a year per team and in the renegotiations with ESPN they were offered 15-16 million but they rejected it wanting 18 million and now they are going to mediation. The Big 12 is finalizing a deal with ESPN that will give them 19.2 to 20 million per team each year and they get to sell their tier 3 rights for however much they can get (UT gets 15 million a year, KU gets 8 million, and OU signed a deal to get 5 million a year) in the ACC deal all tiers are owned by ESPN. There is a contract escalator in the Big 12 deal where if they add 2 teams to get to 12 and a CCG then every school would get an additional 2 million a year. DO THE MATH. If FSU and Clemson joined the Big 12 they would make 22 million in tv revenue and they could sell their tier 3 rights (if OU can get 5 million so can FSU) so they would make 27 million a year opposed to 16-18 million and over the period of the deal, until 2025 with the grant of rights, they would make  130 million dollars more than what they would have made in the ACC. This doesn’t even take into account playoff money. Now these exact numbers haven’t been published my a legitimate news source but it has been reported that conferences represented in the playoffs will in fact make substantially more than the conferences that are not represented  http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8921394&p=1.

      • Sooner_Stampede

        As an OU fan we are supposed to go against all things OSU but on this we agree. OSU went to a BCS bowl and beat a 4th ranked Stanford team helmed by the upcoming 1st pick of the 2012 NFL draft. OSU should have gone to the NC but were robbed by the pollsters.
         
        Not any motivation for an ACC team to join the Big 12? Now who is ignorant of college sports? The ACC makes currently 13 million a year per team and in the renegotiations with ESPN they were offered 15-16 million but they rejected it wanting 18 million and now they are going to mediation. The Big 12 is finalizing a deal with ESPN that will give them 19.2 to 20 million per team each year and they get to sell their tier 3 rights for however much they can get (UT gets 15 million a year, KU gets 8 million, and OU signed a deal to get 5 million a year) in the ACC deal all tiers are owned by ESPN. There is a contract escalator in the Big 12 deal where if they add 2 teams to get to 12 and a CCG then every school would get an additional 2 million a year. DO THE MATH. If FSU and Clemson joined the Big 12 they would make 22 million in tv revenue and they could sell their tier 3 rights (if OU can get 5 million so can FSU) so they would make 27 million a year opposed to 16-18 million and over the period of the deal, until 2025 with the grant of rights, they would make  130 million dollars more than what they would have made in the ACC. This doesn’t even take into account playoff money. Now these exact numbers haven’t been published my a legitimate news source but it has been reported that conferences represented in the playoffs will in fact make substantially more than the conferences that are not represented  http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8921394&p=1.

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  • PaulPoyfair

    @Sooner_Stampede …
    I’m guessing that you must be an overweight retired guy sitting on some big chair somewhere in front of a TV with no drive in life but to tap on your computer in the middle of the day… I thought that you would have given up after your ridiculous statements from the other day but like the little pink bunny you keep on going… So I feel obligated to spend a few more minutes and respond… First, let’s show everyone what you wrote since it is hidden here…
     
    Sooner_Stampede said:
    “The reason I used “cult” which was the only insult/derogatory word and statement I made against you, and it was in my third post, was because you called me a “Redneck Okie Bigot” even though I had said nothing offensive. You came right out of the gate on the defensive saying all my opinions were purely against Mormons and that is the only reason I was saying these things. Look on a Big 12 message board or forum and you will see the same things I have said here. PAC forums and boards are far less polite and go much deeper and they are actually bigoted. Networks do look at a state’s market size and then they look at how far that market is penetrated by ratings. You think you have “whooped me” but you keep grasping at straws.  You think I am a bigot even though I had said nothing about religion and I was only referring to my opinion on BYU football. Hey, but since you already think I am a bigot here is a big FYI for you MOST OF THE COUNTRY THINKS YOUR RELIGION IS A CULT.
    Joseph Smith 200 years ago found golden plates in the woods, that he wouldn’t show anyone, and he was lead to them by an Indian angel. He also learned that Jesus will come back to rule in his new paradise in Missouri. Also, whenever you die you get to rule over you own personal planet with all of your loved ones there, and not to mention that God himself is a corporeal being who lives on the planet Kolob. Polygamy was also central to the Mormon faith until Utah wanted to become a state and the US government would not admit them unless they outlawed polygamy, even though it was a pillar of their faith, so they did what they were told in order to become a part of the US. Talk about sticking to you faith. Keep in mind I didn’t want to bring any of this up because I wanted to talk about football but you wanted to sling insults and play the victim. Get over it and move on. The LDS church is a corrupt pyramid scheme leading along a massive cult following and when anyone questions doctrine they are excommunicated and cut off from their communities and their families. There have been many documentaries on these exact subjects and some of them are made by ex-Mormons who say that LDS is in fact a cult.”
     
    If I were a Lawyer and I was trying to demonstrate that you are a prejudiced bigot and that everything you say is first and foremost driven by your Bigotry I would simply show the Jury your comments, and tell the court that the Plaintiff rests, and then sit back and watch the Jury take your head off… But this is the court of Public Opinion and consequently I am obligated to once again show the sports world in B12 country (or is it SEC country now) the errors of your ways…
     
    First in Football…You claim that you responded with your discriminatory Religious Charges after you were provoked… The only provocation was that your facts were inaccurate and you were called on it… You didn’t like it and so instead of cloaking your Bigotry you came out with it head on… I guess when you can’t win on the facts the only thing left for folks with IQs in the mid double digits is to start going after someone else’s religion (by the way, Double Digits aren’t good IQ scores)…
     
    At the point you were called on your prejudicial rants you began acting like a 5 year old and told us that the PAC12 are worse than you are… Perhaps they are, although I was raised in the NW and received my MBA from the U of W and I really don’t feel like the majority of the schools in the conference share the Bigotry that you and your buddies show from down in the so called “Christian Regions” of the country. I have lived in Texas for nearly 20 years and I have never experienced the outright crassness that I see and feel in Oklahoma and parts of Texas and Kansas…
     
    Virtually everything you say has no verifiable facts behind it… I tell you that Television Networks don’t care about State Populations but rather care about viewership in selected markets and the viewership that individual teams can pull from their fan base… And you want to argue that… If you were right then schools like Harvard, Boston College and U Mass would generate more dollars in TV revenue than the Oklahoma schools as MA has 3X the amount of people that Oklahoma has… And Nebraska which has a third less the population of Utah wouldn’t pull as much TV revs as BYU or the U of U…. Surely even you can see how your statement makes no sense…. (Tell you what, you show me a quote from a legitimate Network Guy backing up what you said and I will send a $100 donation to your choice of an Evangelical church or ministry).
     
    You call my arguments “grasping at straws”??? I give you the source of each of my facts and so I would like to know which one is a “straw” that I grasped? I have stated specific facts and given you actual quotes and your responses have been nothing but opinion… i.e “”you keep grasping at straws”… Again, show me a straw.

  • PaulPoyfair

     @Sooner_Stampede…
     

    Sooner_Stampede said
     
    I’m not into putting other people’s faith down although I know it is a regular Sunday activity where you come from… So instead, on the Religious issues I’ll just respond to your charges the best I can… I don’t claim to be an expert on Mormonism but I am pretty sure that I know alot more about their faith than you do:
    1) You claimed that the plates that the Mormons first modern day prophet found didn’t exist because he didn’t show them to anyone… I actually believe that he showed them to 8 people and all of them testified of seeeing, touching and feeling them… I think the Mormon’s call these people the 8 witnesses… and each and everyone of them never backed away from their claim even though some of them left the church during the course of their lives.
    2) You claim that the Mormons believe that Jesus Christ will return and rule the world from somewhere in MO… I hadn’t heard that claim… Actually I think that the Mormons  are not specific on where Christ will reside when he comes again but they do believe that the gathering place for their members when this occurs will be in their own local areas unless instructed otherwise.
    3) I am unaware that Mormons believe that “resurected mormons” will have their own planets to rule… Actually, I think they believe that certain worthy individuals will be asked to perform various tasks and nobody knows what those will be but I am guessing that it doesn’t include just standing around and singing.
    4) Mormons do in fact believe that Man was created in God’s image and that his resurrected body is a body of flesh and bones he does have a body of Flesh and Bones. As far as Kolob is concerned, Mormons simply use it Metaphoically to describe God’s heavenly abode… The one’s who claim it to be a “planet” are the anti-mormons such as yourself.
    5) Mormons believe in Modern Day Revelation and they believe that the practice of polygamy was began and ended by revelation through their prophets to mange the time and the environment that they were in.
    6) You call the LDS church  a corrupt pyramid scheme… I’m not sure what that means… Most pyramid schemes that I know of are found in the business world where people are recruited to sell a product and whoever was involved in helping hire this person to sell that product gets a oiece of the profitability for product that is sold by those people… The LDS church is a “Lay Ministry” meaning that there is no pay that goes to their ministers it’s all volunteer, whereas I believe Evangelical Ministers and staffers are paid clergy… If anything the Evangelical folks sound alot more like “Pyramid Participants” than Mormons.
    7. You claim that members of the Mormon Church who disagree with a church Leader’s opinions are “excommunicared” and extradited from their families and their friends… There couldn’t be anything further from the truth… I was Excommunicated for sins that I committed and I was deserving of the Excommunication… All I felt from the Leadership was Love and Concern and an all out effort by friends, family and members to help me get back in the church … It worked.
    8. The last item that I will respond to is your statement that “Most of the Country Thinks that your Religion is a Cult”… To that I simply say, go check out one of their services… the pews are full of ex-Evangelicals who have come to the church looking for knowledge and understanding of their beliefs and finding a faith that they and their families believe to be the “truth”…. The LDS faith is the fastest growing faith in America and in many places around the world… Not once have I heard any mormon attack another faith… I don’t think that they feel like they need to do that and i don’t think that they believe that that would be Christ’s approach to working with folks of other faith… I think they believe that Christ would include them not exclude them…
     
    So you see Sooner… All that Bigotry just gets you riled and doesn’t allow you the freedom to enjoy the sport of Football…. I truly believe that if you wouldn’t let your oppinions be determined by your religious beliefs you would be alot more tolerant and alot mor likeable… BYU is a solid school with great academics and a solid sports program… They would be a grat addition to the Big 12.

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